Graphics

Hi, I know this will be rather awkward. But first let me introduce myself. I'm Edwin Effendi and I own a rental house in Indonesia with numerous numbers of Production Switchers and all EFP needs.

We purchased the Carbonite switcher recently, but some of my customer have been complaining about the Cut to Cut delay in the program bus on both Program and MLE1.

Here is the deal,

if i press the program bus button softly, there wont be any noticeable delay.

however, if i press the button down very quickly i see a noticeable slight delay (about a frame). Now I know I'm a bit biased in terms of its class. But my customer have been complaining a lot and wishing to go back to the Sony MVS-6000 switchers all the time.

This incident been occurring since we purchased the Crossover-16 unit and the only reply I get so far from both my supplier (who then asked Ross Department) and some Ross Staff members is none other than assurance that there is no delay which is not true to what my customers think.

Now I wont point any fingers here, but is there something we could work out to get some solution out of this? Recently, I've been playing around with the Carbonite2ME and I noticed this feature called the Control Panel diagnosis tool which tells me that the each and every button on the panel is responsive and working as intended. However, I noticed something within this diagnostic tool on the status/menu panel. Whenever I press a button, the status will change from "up" (not pressed), but then when i pressed a button it will quickly switch from "down" to "hold". Could this be the trigger that have caused an upset with my customers? Could this programming on these switchers made so that it detects a button being pressed first then will hold that status? (though only a fraction of a second, close to 1 frame).

Though there are willing users who would get used to the feeling of the switchers having a slight delay, there are unwilling customers who wouldn't and unfortunately there are quite a few of em in Indonesia.

Is there any way to bypass these programming so that any changes in the button will go directly to "Hold" position (up, hold) instead of having 3 status (up down hold)? These are my only guess as to why the switcher is having delay when the panel is pressed.

**Note: I have tried all of these:

1. Using an external reference to maybe decrease the load on the switcher

2. Using internal reference

3. Changing Field Switches to Field 1, 2, and both

4. Not using any Frame Convertor Frame Sync (FCFS) function which of course causes video delay.

5. Changing each type of format SD (576i), HD(720p), HD(1080i)

Nonetheless, I cannot make any changes. If anyone could help with this topic or assure me on the switcher architecture. Please let me know.

Yours Sincerely,

Edwin Effendi

Edwin,

I do not know of any cause for a delay when cutting between timed sources, of course there could be a potential one frame offset when using FCFS (which you noted you have tried without them on).

I have passed your post on to engineering and we shall look into this question further.

Thank you for raising this issue, we strive to ensure our products are the very best available and your concerns are very important to us.

We will get you an answer asap.

Nigel

#XPression

Edwin,

A very important question, are you using the Multiviewer to monitor program? As I am sure you are aware there is an inherent 1 frame delay in the multiviewer output - plus whatever delay is in the monitor itself.

First test you should do is attach a monitor directly to program out - if you have a crt display that would have no internal delay and be the best possible test. If you are using a flat screen - please make sure all picture processing / noise reduction is turned of and if it has one - put it in game mode. That will minimise internal delay.

To be able to see 1 frame of delay from physically pressing a button is an almost inhuman feat - so I suspect you are seeing much more and this could be the result of your monitoring method.

Nigel

#XPression

Hi Nigel,

Thanks for the quick reply.

and the answer is yes, I have been notified about the multiviewer since we purchased Crossover 16, Carbonite 1ME and carbonite 2ME.

I have tried using all output sources: AUX, PVW, and PGM.

Yours Sincerely,

Edwin Effendi

#XPression

Sorry Edwin but now I am a bit confused.

Are you saying you are seeing the same apparent delay when switching on PVW and AUX outs as well?

Do you know what the delay of you display is?

Nigel

#XPression

Oh and one more thing.

"To be able to see 1 frame of delay from physically pressing a button is an almost inhuman feat "“ so I suspect you are seeing much more and this could be the result of your monitoring method."

Believe me, my customers been complaining since Crossover 16 which we purchased last year. They don't get that kind of reaction and I can relate to them since I've tried quite a numerous number of switchers including Snell Kahuna, Sony MVS-6000, Grass Valley Karrera (though not the same class as Carbonite and Crossover), and finally Data Video SE-3000 (which is about the same class as carbonite 1ME and it doesn't seem to be felt as much as the Carbonite unit).

How should I put it. My customer seems to like the "rough spot on" cuts. Okay, heres the classic Case Study in my field and it usually happens during a live music event.

The Visual Mixer usually do a very short cut to cut basis so they often look for both camera angles and follow the music rhythm. However, some of them couldn't get the cut right by following the music rhythm and flow, because of the inherent delay that they have been experiencing with Crossover-16, Carbonite 1ME, and Carbonite 2ME. And unfortunately most of them requested that we provide them with our Sony MVS-6000 switchers instead. (We did not use the multiviewer function). Then as the 2nd part of the event starts, a director (or mixer) who have already got their instinct used to the inherent delay didn't complain. But he did say that he got used to the delay so he pre-pressed the button before the cut should have happen. Therefore, we find two differing users from the same background with differing habits which comes to the conclusion that there is an inherent delay that the users have felt. The one that didn't quite want to get used to it complained to his Higher ups who then complained to us that they could not use the switcher due to the delay.

And its been recurring over many music events, not just once. Since I've already put my investment into Ross I'd like to work out a solution to this very awkward problem.

**NOTE: I did not feel the delay when I press the button softly, however I do feel it when I press the button very quickly.

[I]Not sure how to put it, but lets say that if i press the button all the way down very roughly and hastily I can feel it. And I think this is what my customers have felt across the Ross Switchers types. They don't feel it on the MVS-6000 and neither did i.[/I]

Yours Sincerely,

Edwin Effendi.

#XPression

[QUOTE]Sorry Edwin but now I am a bit confused.

Are you saying you are seeing the same apparent delay when switching on PVW and AUX outs as well?

Do you know what the delay of you display is?

Nigel



Yes I Am. And i think its part of how the hardware is programmed.

Yours Sincerely,

Edwin Effendi.

#XPression

[QUOTE]Do you know what the delay of you display is?

I am not sure, but it doesn't happen to our other production switcher lines.

Yours sincerely,

Edwin Effendi

#XPression

"I am not sure, but it doesn't happen to our other production switcher lines."

on second thought Nigel, If you could discuss this with someone from your side. I will find out the delays on my displays to clarify a few things in a more precise and technical way.

Yours Sincerely,

Edwin Effendi.

#XPression

Edwin,

I quick update on one of your concerns - the diagnostic test mode you have tried is the only place the 'hold' function exists. So your diagnotic tests dont unfortunately tell you much other than the button are working (which is of course what the tests are for :))

We will get back to you ASAP.

Nigel

#XPression